In this installment of The Platform Journey, Avanish Sahai sits down with JW Hoh and Andrew Albert, CEO and CTO of VIIZR. VIIZR is field service management software powered by Ford Pro and built on Salesforce and helps customers manage their home service business. Co-designed with small businesses in the trades, VIIZR enables customers to streamline operations, connect their back office(s) and field teams, stay on top of job and project status and communicate better with customers.
Avanish, JW, and Andrew discuss:
And much more!
Guests: JW Hoh & Andrew Albert
Jian Wei Hoh is originally from Melbourne, Australia and has spent the past two decades globally focused on technology and business growth across startups and enterprises. He is currently the CEO of VIIZR Inc, a field services platform for trade professionals. Prior to VIIZR, Jian Wei served 5 years at Ford Motor Company, most recently as General Manager and Head of Business Design at Ford Greenfield Labs. Previously, Jian Wei was an executive overseeing the growth of rideshare in Scandinavia, social media in China, and omnichannel marketing and digital transformation across Oceania. As a practitioner of Human-Centered design, Jian Wei currently teaches business design thinking to startups, students and executives across various institutions in the United States.
Andrew Albert has over 20 years of CRM, Platform, and Enterprise SaaS experience in engineering, consulting, and platform enablement. Prior to being CTO of VIIZR, Andrew spent 16 years at Salesforce, most recently as the SVP of AppExchange advising and mentoring ISVs on how to architect great applications on the Salesforce platform. Previously, Andrew joined Salesforce as a technical consultant helping ensure Salesforce's early enterprise customers were successful. Prior to Salesforce, spent a few years at Siebel as a Software Engineer and another few years as a Siebel consultant.
Host: Avanish Sahai
Avanish Sahai is a Tidemark Fellow and has served as a Board Member of Hubspot since April 2018 and of Birdie.ai since April 2022. Previously, Avanish served as the vice president, ISV and Apps partner ecosystem of Google from 2019 until 2021. From 2016 to 2019, he served as the global vice president, ISV and Technology alliances at ServiceNow. From 2014 to 2015, he was the senior vice president and chief product officer at Demandbase. Prior to Demandbase, Avanish built and led the Appexchange platform ecosystem team at Salesforce, and was an executive at Oracle and McKinsey & Company, as well as various early-to-mid stage startups in Silicon Valley.
About Tidemark
Tidemark is a venture capital firm, foundation, and community built to serve category-leading technology companies as they scale. Tidemark was founded in 2021 by David Yuan, who has been investing, advising, and building technology companies for over 20 years. Learn more at www.tidemarkcap.com.
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Avanish: Welcome, everybody. We are here with another edition of The Platform Journey. Today we have a really interesting company, VIIZR. I’ve got the CEO, Jian Wei Hoh – who also goes by JW – and Andrew Albert, the CTO. I’ll ask them to introduce themselves and the company a little bit. Super excited to have you both here. Welcome.
JW: Thank you, Avanish. Happy to be here, and, please, my friends call me JW, so call me JW.
Avanish: Fantastic. Andrew?
Andrew: Yeah, thanks for hosting us, Avanish. Really excited to share the VIIZR story and work with you again on this podcast.
Avanish: JW, let’s start with you. Just describe a bit about the company. Like I said, I think it’s a very unique story. Start off with a bit of who you are, what you do, who you do it for, and the parentage – if that’s the word – of the organization.
JW: I’m Jian Wei Hoh, or JW. I’m the CEO of VIIZR. We are a field service platform founded in 2022 by Ford Motor Company and Salesforce to democratize digital transformation for highly skilled, scalable trades businesses. Think HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and landscaping, to name a few vocations.
Prior to joining VIIZR, I was a general manager at Ford’s Greenfield Labs, overseeing the ideation and incubation of new digital services for Ford’s customers. A challenge we immediately identified was that a global labor shortage was about to significantly impact how communities, cities, and countries grew. I mean, in the United States alone, there were, for trades and vocations, the same commercial industries that Ford has served for over a hundred years. We anticipated an undersupply of over three million trade professionals by 2028.
VIIZR was founded from Ford’s labs because we saw this huge opportunity for us to solve this shortage through digital transformation, and to ignite the growth of these critical industries again.
Avanish: Awesome. Andrew, share a bit of your background, which is amazing.
Andrew: I’ve been with VIIZR for nine months as their CTO, helping to run product delivery and engineering, as well as the ecosystem strategy. For the majority of my career, I spent 16-plus years at Salesforce. Most of that was on the AppExchange team helping advise, mentor, educate, and architect the Salesforce ISV ecosystem applications on the platform.
I’ve been in and around the Salesforce ecosystem and platform pretty much from the beginning. It’s been an amazing nine-month journey to be on the other side of it, to be an ISV, building on the Salesforce platform.
Avanish: Awesome. Always a pleasure to see you. So, this is a fascinating story.This is not your traditional ISV company. You’ve got the genealogy of Ford Motor Company, one of the most recognized and lauded brands in history, working alongside Salesforce to bring something pretty distinctive to the market. JW, you already started talking about the market opportunity. Let’s dive into your platform strategy.
The choice of Salesforce and others – how do you think about that? How did that come about? What was the motivation behind that?
JW: Andrew, you want to help? Where do we start with this?
Andrew: Yeah. There are so many layers to the use of the word platform in that question, Avanish. First, VIIZR, as a new company, had to decide what platform to build our core product and capabilities on top of. There are lots of choices out there. VIIZR made the decision to partner and build on top of Salesforce’s platform for technical reasons, with the platform as a service. The core Salesforce platform will help VIIZR build and get to market faster.
It also was heavily influenced by the go-to-market strategy. The decision of which platform was a joint decision of technology as well as go-to-market. They have to be aligned. For VIIZR, the right choice was to partner with Salesforce to build on their platform. That is how we were able to go from idea and concept to GA in approximately a year’s time—from idea to beta to GA. For our use case and what we were trying to solve for, that was the right decision. That is how and why we chose Salesforce to build our application on top of it.
The next phase, and one of the early innings of this, was making sure we architect our core app – which is purchasable, sellable, provisionable today, underneath the hood – to design it as a platform, so that it starts to become the VIIZR platform and helps us achieve our long-term goals. Right now, we have a product that is sellable. One product, one license, one SKU. That’s where we’re getting started.
But we have a strategy to become the single unifying business platform for the trades. That means to make sure, when we’re building on top of these infrastructure-as-a-service or platform-as-a-service, the layer we’re building has to be a platform. It has to be extensible, consumable, composable, so we can keep delivering and innovating in our domain, our expertise, and lean on the partners in the ecosystem to provide incredible and endless use cases that we’re not going to be able to develop ourselves.
Avanish: When we first started chatting – and I’ve been a platform and ecosystem geek for some time – this is where my mind blew up as well. I think, 1) it’s brilliant. 2) I think leveraging an existing platform for time-to-market (as you were saying for the services that you don’t have to replicate) and then having a vision of building your own platform on top of these other ones—that’s pretty unique.
You described your focus as field service, JW, and talked about HVAC and trades and so on. What would your platform, the VIIZR platform, look like? What would that entail from your ecosystem to bring more value to those customers?
JW: One thing, to ground ourselves in regards to the customers that we’re targeting, as we talk about HVAC and plumbing and landscaping: I think many observers would define our customer segment as small businesses. However, we don’t really think of our customers as small businesses. We see them as scalable businesses. A lot of that is spending countless hours in the field. Small businesses deal with a lot of the same problems as large businesses; the difference is that large businesses get a plethora of tools at their disposal, whereas the smaller ones are completely underserved. Because those tools really serve and accommodate for the tighter limitations around resourcing, right? Talent, time, capital, you name it.
I think what’s unique about VIIZR is that we’re providing this dedicated platform to unleash the potential for small businesses. Really, you get all the same things that you need—whether it’s dispatching, scheduling, creating invoices, collecting payments—but you’re doing it with this simplified interface, where you’re only bringing what you need. It’s affordable, and it’s adoptable.
Most important, being a platform, is that it’s scalable. These smaller businesses will scale to larger businesses one day, and we want to make sure we have that platform that can grow with them. That dimension doesn’t just go on time and maturity and growth. We’re also trying to cover a range of field service industries. We’ve just named a few, right? HVAC, plumbing, electrical. But you can do pest control, locksmiths, masonry, and cleaning. There are some really interesting customers coming onto our platform. That platform strategy is really key to serving everyone.
Avanish: What I love about that is, we’ve all had the passion for thinking big, and the fact that these folks can scale—I mean, some of them are probably multi-million-dollar businesses. [Even though] you tend to think of them as small businesses. So 1) they’re multi-million-dollar businesses, depending on your definition of small. 2) I have this notion that digital transformation—which we often talk about from the large enterprise perspective—applies to everybody.
JW: Yes.
Avanish: Lately people have to think differently about how to serve their clients. How they manage—you were talking about invoicing. Those things don’t happen anymore, ideally, in a paper-based, US Postal Service invoice showing up, God forbid. But how do you manage it? How do you tie it back to your accounts and the services you’ve provided? I think it’s super smart to say, “Hey, this is what we do,” but the customer needs a much more complete solution.
Andrew, you mentioned that this is in the early innings still. But how do you figure out those gaps? How are you going about identifying those needs? What’s that journey like in your own system to fill it out from the point of view of your current and future customers?
Andrew: In terms of what we build versus where we partner, and the ecosystem, there are two parts to it. In our first year, we are getting clearer on our domain—where our core differentiators are, and the value prop of our core application today.
JW and I were just talking about this last week. How do we deliver simplicity, speed, a frictionless, professional experience, for our customers to present themselves to their customers? It’s our scheduling, it’s our mobile application, it’s our work management capabilities—which includes payments. But when we’re out there talking to the customers, they’re always like, “That’s great, I need more. I use QuickBooks for integration. I use this for inventory management. I use this for finance. I use this…” The opportunity for us is to be that unifying force, that unifying experience.
No matter how big and fast we grow, we can only deliver so much. We’ve got to know who we are, deliver our core, expose our capabilities, and make them extensible and consumable by third parties, so we can solve those use cases through partnerships and third parties. Things like financing. Financing is now an API. You don’t have to go somewhere and fill out pen and paper; you can get financing as an API.
There should just be a little widget that any of our customers, if they need it, just drag and drop right into the VIIZR application. They can provide end-consumer financing, inventory management… Yes, we use the words SMB, but it could be a mult-million-dollar business. They have to manage their inventory. Make sure the technician, when they’re going out to the homes and the communities, has the right tools, inventories, and supplies on their vehicle. There’s so much efficiency we can drive through that. Know who you are, know what your domain is, and then lean on the partners.
One of the things at VIIZR is, we lead with partners. We were born out of a partnership, and we lead with partnerships. We’re not doing this alone. We’re starting to see the momentum, the acceleration, that provides us, versus thinking we can build this all on our own, in-house.
Avanish: First of all, the sound bite of financing as an API is awesome. I don’t think I’ve heard that one before, and I love it. I know exactly what you mean. It’s where the world is evolving towards, so that’s terrific.
I think one of the things you both have alluded to – and this is one of the premises I’ve held, and it’s fantastic to hear from practitioners like yourselves – is that a platform alone cannot achieve much, quite honestly. It’s platform plus ecosystem. They are two sides of a coin. It sounds like, from the get-go, that is how you’re thinking about the business.
That mindset has to come from the C-suite; it has to come from the full leadership team. The fact that you’re executing on that is just pretty mind-blowing. I love those examples and that story.
You’re early on the journey, but as you think about the strategy, what are some of the key success factors or key indicators that you’re keeping in mind? How do you think about that? What are some of the things you’re keeping an eye out for? Either one of you.
Andrew: I think it always starts with the customer. When we’re out in the field, if we are solving more and more of these customer capabilities through joint solutions, that’s validation. They’re not just using VIIZR. They’re using VIIZR, Stripe, Intuit QuickBooks, and we are part of that solution. That, to me, shows that we’re on the right path. We are the unifying force, and we are bringing these best-of-breed innovation technologies in a simple, affordable way, to the customers.
It’s when we show up with others. If our customers are getting value, not just from VIIZR, but from our partnerships, the solutions that are integrated, and seamless experiences through our capabilities—to me, there’s no better, clearer metric. There are probably KPIs, reports, and dashboards we can run in between, but to me, that’s where the rubber meets the road.
JW: Andrew, I think you got it spot on. I was thinking about this, and I think the customer is at the center of everything. I’d almost expand on it and say, for us, the success factor will continue to be this idea of deep and authentic collaboration with our customers, but also with our partnering platforms. This extends just beyond the access to APIs and whatnot.
At VIIZR, we refer to ourselves with this idea that high-tech meets high-touch, or highly skilled. High tech is us working with the best platforms. Highly skilled is our respectful way of how we refer to our customers [as opposed to] blue-collared. I mean, have you ever tried to install an HVAC system? It’s the recognition of the skills that we’re trying to service for our customers—and really, our go-to-market reach. In this industry, Ford’s pedigree and vast distribution of ecosystems exists already, and we’ve got that relationship. What’s really important is high touch. It’s about where our customers want to take us. We’re not just another Silicon Valley company in our labs; we’re out in the field all the time.
I just came back from a trip this morning, in front of customers. I think unifying platforms is one thing, but providing an adoptable interface and a user experience is another. Whether that’s Salesforce or Stripe or future partners to be announced, working closely with the customer – and even our partners’ design and product teams – has been really unique to what makes VIIZR special. We believe it creates the best integrated user experience, and that’s really important when we talk about the sort of customer-centric mindset that Andrew was bringing up.
Avanish: Yeah. You alluded to this, but maybe one of you can talk about those metrics. Are there metrics that you’ve already identified? Of course, there’s a revenue dashboard, there’s a retention dashboard, all that good stuff. But are there unique things about the way you’re thinking about this business that say, “These actually are the indicators that things are really working well, versus things that we may need to spend a bit of time diving into?”
Andrew: Yes, there are. Obviously, like all SaaS companies, we instrument our product so we can see engagement. We can see which more engaged customers are using which capabilities and functionalities. We definitely have insights that we can look at in real time. We already are starting to get some of the early findings of the VIIZR capabilities that we are providing.
Because of that instrumentation platform (or layer of our capabilities), as we start integrating with more and more third parties, the platforms and partners will get those types of insights of adoption – of what’s driving value, essentially, with our customers. I think it all comes down to, what are customers using? What are they adopting? What’s sticking, and what’s ultimately providing value to the customer?
A slightly different part of that answer is the milestones. How do we get from here to there? You know, VIIZR just turned one. We just started our second year. How do we make sure that, yes, this is a medium- and long-term strategy, but we’ve got to start it now. We can’t wait and start it later. It’ll be too late.
I call it our internal platform. Everything we design… When we launched payments powered by Stripe, we built a platform layer. We are now building an identity in the access management layer. We are building an integration layer with Intuit QuickBooks. These are all the beginnings of what I’m going to call an internal platform.
Our mobile apps interact with our data model through APIs. They’re all internal right now, so we can make sure they’re robust, hardened, and scalable. Ultimately, this will all be exposed through public APIs and public services to the ecosystem over time. There’s the external customer value that we were sharing before, but the internal milestones and the journey we’re going on from idea to year one to years two, three, four – it’s build the internal platform and lay the foundation that ultimately, at the end of the day, you have to expose publicly through APIs and UI capabilities.
Avanish: Fantastic. JW, I want to come back to you on a question I was going to ask earlier but somehow skipped. You came from Ford Motor Company. You’re now running basically a startup. What led Ford to invest, to put a valuable leader like yourself, in this kind of role? Actually, that’s been one of the ideas that’s been germinating for some time. I won't name names, but even 10 years ago, on AppExchange, there were some end customers thinking about how they could build a software business. Yet, at the time, none of those took off. I am just thrilled to see it happening, but why put it forward?
JW: Why Ford? Wow. Okay. That’s a loaded question there, Avanish. For me, it’s very simple; it’s very straightforward. When people know that Ford owns more than 40% of the commercial vehicle market in the United States alone, [do you ever] think about what would happen if this industry ever contracted or stagnated? It needs to grow.
This is a key industry for Ford. If one out of every two trucks and vans out there, from a commercial aspect, is a Ford, it’s a space where Ford has always looked after these businesses. We are effectively a tool that most businesses have already used.
I think what’s really important is, how do we grow these businesses? Actually, this is really interesting. This is actually the genesis of the VIIZR name, if you’re interested. When we were at the labs, looking at commercial businesses – the majority of which are smaller – we really tried to figure out how we can help these businesses. A lot of our customers, Ford drivers and van and truck owners would say, “Ford, you make these vehicles. They’re going to be electrified when I buy one. They last for at least 10 years. They’re great. If you really want to help my business, you know what you can do? You can actually increase the size of the sun visor in the car. Or make it so that it expands out like a manila folder.”
We’re like, what? [Laughs] Why would you do that? That’s really dangerous for driving! We heard this time and time again, and it was very simple. They would be like, look, the visor is the most important part of the vehicle for our business. It is where we store all our invoices, our estimates, our quotes. It’s where we have all our customer contacts. We’ll hear things like, “Yeah, I lose invoices all the time. When I lose it, I lose like 12% of what I need to collect, even though I’ve done the work. But I’m too busy running to do this and whatnot.”
It became apparent to us very quickly, oh, you’re not really looking to increase the size of your visor, you need to digitize your visor. This is where the VIIZR name came from, and I think that’s really important.
The other thing I would say is, Ford is an American icon for many reasons, but I think one of the most important is this idea that the organization has almost pioneered the ability to democratize technology. They pioneered the movement with the Model T, and have continued to do so over and over again in the last century. I think this democratization of technology is really special. If you think about the auto world, how do you take a collection of cutting-edge technology, both hardware and software, through a vast number of suppliers, and create a solution that’s both accessible and adoptable? You’ve got a steering wheel and a pedal that can move you to anywhere you want in the world. Well, besides water and whatnot.
A hundred years later, we’re doing the same thing, but with technology. How do we take the best of the best parts in platforms and deliver it through this unified platform, but through an experience that’s affordable (because of Ford’s sheer size and scale), adoptable, and through the user experience – and just make sure it’s accessible to everyone as well? That’s probably why Ford’s involved.
Avanish: I don’t think I’ve ever talked about that in any conversation. Thank you for clarifying the origin of the name. That story is mind-blowing.
Andrew mentioned customer centricity. This takes it to a different level, right? Ford Motor Company, the Eco, the F-150, and the company out there—this is their way of expanding the value they deliver to their customers and their clients. This is stickiness – a term we use in SaaS – taken to a whole different level. Customers are able to say that now, my business is running on a platform provided by the folks who sold me my transportation. That is, again, mind-blowing.
We’ve talked about all the goodness. I’m sure it’s not been all a bed of roses. Nothing confidential, no dirty secrets, but what are some of the challenges? You guys are pioneering an idea that others may want to contemplate as well. What are one or two things that have been roadblocks or challenges, where you’re like, hmm, wish that were different?
Andrew: The most obvious obstacle or challenge we had is, like anyone, limited time and limited resources. We know we have a ton of capabilities that we need to deliver now, in our core application. We went GA in September. We’ve had several releases; we release every four to eight weeks and upgrade. We’re trying to deliver, deliver, deliver app capabilities.
But most of this talk has been about how we want to be a platform, right? How can we be an app and a platform, having limited time and limited resources? If I’ve learned anything in my career, any time you ask one or the other question in business, the answer is always both. It’s always “and.” That creates stress and hard decisions of prioritizing our short-term needs of customers today, but not losing sight of architecturally and strategically where we want to go in the future—and not creating too much tech debt, or making a decision now that we’re going to pay the price for later. It’s a daily challenge. An obstacle that we have to live with.
JW: Yeah, Andrew’s got it. The word is prioritization, right? If you think about unifying limitless platform capabilities while trying to create the most adoptable interface that’s ubiquitous to all, it’s a wonderful challenge. But it’s really a tricky act of prioritization. Between offering functionality against design affordances signifying tech debt, and all the above, it’s an interesting conversation that the entire team has a lot of dialogue with week in, week out.
Avanish: Yeah. Those of us who have been around a bit longer know, it’s every company’s challenge. You will never have all the resources and all the time. That’s the old premise: you pick features, you pick time, or you pick quality, but you can only pick two. I think people have learned not to compromise on quality, so you have to make those trade-offs.
Having that as a framework that everybody can get their head around, and realize that you have to do that prioritization [is important]. It also applies to the ecosystem story, which is what you were saying earlier. What are the things you’re not going to build, because you think the partners can do it better or faster or both, while you’re meeting the needs of the customer? I think it’s a great synthesis of what all entrepreneurs have to think about.
As we wrap up, I think there are a lot of folks like yourselves who are either part of larger traditional companies or not software companies, or spinning something out. What are some of the lessons or advice you might give to someone? Let’s say it’s someone in a completely different category altogether, who is thinking about a software business or maybe currently in a subscription business. What are some of the things that you’ve seen and done that you would do again?
JW: I’m glad we recognized this early on, but when you’re trying to solve a problem for an industry, look at who’s already solving that problem—or an analogous problem for analogous industries. There are many amazing platforms out there with incredible capabilities, but a lot of them are out of reach for many, many businesses, due to limited resources or everything we talked about earlier.
We’re building a platform as our effective way to provide greater accessibility, this idea of democratization. But you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. I’m glad we noticed that really quickly. I feel like that is our sort of special sauce, because there’s a tendency to think that you can do things better than what’s out there. We live in this incredible time, now, of these technology curves where everything is there at our disposal, but not everyone has access to all of it. To really make an impact today, find a way to provide access to the problem you’re trying to solve. I think that would be my takeaway.
Andrew: I think I talked briefly about this earlier a bit. When it comes to which platform you, as a new company, are going to build your product and capabilities on, that’s not just a technical or engineering question. Make sure that is aligned with the go-to-market strategies and the overall objectives of the company. There are lots of platforms, and they all have pros and cons, and they’re all different sizes and shapes. You might use multiple of these platforms, but make sure your platform decisions are aligned and informed by the go-to-market. They’re not distinctly separate conversations. The earlier, the closer to day zero you do that, the better off your decision will be.
The other thing is, be partner-first from the beginning. Don’t think of the word partner as just a reseller/distribution channel. That might be true; that’s not wrong, but don’t think of it solely as that. Partners are not just technology—partners can help you get to market faster, and the reality is, you can’t get to market fast enough, you can’t sell fast enough, and you can’t scale fast enough.
Be thoughtful about your technology stack as it relates to your go-to-market strategy, and bring partners into your conversations early. Don’t think that that’s a year two, three, four, five problem. It should start in the beginning.
Avanish: Wow. You bring tears to my eyes, Andrew. Thank you. [Laughter]
Andrew: I learned from the best, Avanish. [Laughter]
Avanish: The fact that you, as a CTO… Look, I know all your skills. But the fact that, in a CTO role, you’re thinking go-to-market in the same breath, that, to me, is one of the key lessons. You can build the best technology out there, but if you don’t figure out how to get it to market, and how you market iteratively, you fail. I think that, just that statement is one of the biggest takeaways for anybody thinking of that.
Well, gentlemen, it’s delightful to have this conversation. I wish we could have more time. Any final thoughts from either or both of you?
JW: I mean, Avanish, I really want to thank you for your time and helping us share the VIIZR story. I think it’s really important. I’m probably going to sound like I’m saying this on repeat, but it’s funny, right? Avanish, you, me, and Andrew, all live in the Bay Area, and I admire everyone here, and I know we’re all pushing on this cutting edge technology – Web3, generative AI, metaverses, and so forth, right?
But there is so much impact we, today, can make to our communities by democratizing existing technology to others. I hope others see that. There are missions where like, yes, there is one way to go with cutting edge, but let’s truly help. There’s this huge section of the population where – to your point, Avanish – digital transformation needs to exist for everyone and everywhere through all industries. It doesn’t right now.
We’re solving for one segment of it with field service and scalable businesses, but there are so many others. We can really help each other. That’s where my passion and focus is right now. [Laughs] I love the generative AIs, and I’m on ChatGPT and metaverses and Web3 and all that. But we are all in this world of technology because we want to solve problems. There are a lot of real problems to still solve out there.
Avanish: What a great mission to have. Thank you. Andrew?
Andrew: One of the things I’m obviously relearning is that the opportunity is huge, and the impact we can have is huge. We have a long-term strategy. Every day we are working to get it. It’s hard—this is not easy to do, to get to the other side. Celebrate the small wins with the team. There are so many amazing things that are happening every day, all day, even through all the obstacles and escalations and alarms that go off every day.
Don’t forget to celebrate the small wins. No matter what the path is, it’s going to be a long journey to get to a lot of what we talked about. Make sure that every week you celebrate the great work the team is doing. It just builds the momentum we need to get to the other side.
35:16 Avanish: Awesome. JW and Andrew Albert, thank you so much for joining The Platform Journey. Fantastic conversation. Wishing you and the team just huge, huge, huge amount of success.
35:30 Andrew: Thanks for having us, Avanish.
35:32 JW: Yeah, thanks, Avanish.